Kaitei Daisensou JPN (In The Hunt)

[Madroms]

Interesting find SaturnHST: could you make bin/cue image of both of your v1.004 and compare them ?
So we can know if there is something different in files/data or it is just a factory pb.

[SaturnHST]

How do I compare them?

[Madroms]

You can compare them:
- by crc/md5 hashes
- by doing a file compare in binary mode using an hed edit for example

All of this is there isn't any factory settings that shift audio tracks.
Or you can upload the images somewhere and I can compare them if you prefer.

[zyrobs]

crc comparing is not a good idea, even factory offset can shift the audio, making the crc different.

You'd need to copy off the files to disc, and crc compare those.

Or, you know, upload the bin/cue so one of us can take a look.

[SaturnHST]

This is the one that boots:

http://oron.com/jq3wfg5tbcxu

This is the one that doesn't boot:

http://oron.com/d7ubjt7lotjt

[zyrobs]

Ok, I've checked them, and they are the exact same cd image. If there are any differences between the two discs, they are on a very low level, and its not possible to check that without specialized knowledge, hardware, and the original discs. Out of interest, is the matrix code (inner ring) the exact same on both discs? Including any small marks in the ring, and IFPI numbers as well?

It's strange that your grey saturn can load the game, but if the matrix is an exact match, I'd imagine that it just boils down to the older machine having a better laser (later model 2 machines had worse and worse quality cd units).

[SaturnHST]

The inner-ring codes are the same: T-15006GP-00554-P1K V IFPI L237

Here are results of further testing on the disc that boots:

Japan model 1 HST-3200 bios 1.00 serial S59000291
-Doesn't boot.

Japan model 1 HST-3210 bios 1.01 serial 662057758
-Boots and works

Japan model 1 HST-3210 bios 1.01 serial T53076426
-Boots and works

Japan model 2 HST-3220 bios 1.01 serial B7D069205
-Boots and shows the game's intro cut-scene, but hangs after that. It might work if you try a few times, but I don't have time to test.

Japan model 2 HST-3220 bios 1.01 serial B7D039686
-Sometimes it will boot and work. Sometimes it won't boot. Sometimes it will boot and hang after the intro. Pretty crazy.

Japan model 2 Skeleton HST-3220 bios 1.01 serial B8F 032239
-Doesn't boot.

US model 1 MK-8000 bios 1.00a (with Action Replay) serial AE62031645
-Boots and works.

US model 2 MK-8000A bios 1.00a (with Action Replay) serial AE64037863
-Boots and works.

Keep in mind this disc is the first revision (version 1.004)

At this point, I don't know whether the problem is with the scratches on the disc, the Saturns' laser, or a manufacturer defect.

[zyrobs]

Can you be a little more specific and post the serials for each machine. There are over 20 different board revisions in total, and 7 different laser units. HST-3220 narrows it down to about 7 motherboards or so, and 5 possible disc drives. Even with the serial, it's not possible to tell the laser unit for 100% (or at least I've yet to determine which units got non-jvc drives).

[SaturnHST]

I have edited the post with serial numbers.

[zyrobs]

That confirms what I thought... All the machines on which the game plays fine, are between VA2-5 models, which use a EXL-P604 drive, which is the one that can play even the worst discs in my Saturns too (including a broken disc!).
And the ones that don't boot are all VA13 or 15 models, which use EXL-P608 drives, and I've heard people talk about how that one is somehow worse.
The odd one out is the S59000291 machine, which should be a VA0 motherboard, and the oldest machine of the bunch. I've seen the lasers in these fail, so I imagine this one is not-that-tough either. Which drive does it use, a standard JVC one (ENR-007B or D), or one of those crooked, small drives?

This, however, only confirms my suspicion about some Saturns have cd drives being higher quality than others by design. It does not explain why two identical discs do not behave the same. I think there may be some mastering problems on some copies which go below standard user data, but that's purely speculation on my part.